I read "How to Win Friends and Influence People" several years ago and the "it's about them" thing really stuck with me. People really do like to talk about themselves, and that makes parties much easier if you have social anxiety. I love listening to people talk about their interests, because I always learn something and I can form a positive connection with someone new (even if their interests aren't really up my alley). It also has the added benefit of being able to make a good impression on someone without exhausting your social batteries.
I love this strategy until I run into someone else who’s read it. Then it’s just two people wait()ing each other.
That's when turn-taking kicks in. A nice conversation might have multiple sections, and the person doing most of the talking can alternate between sections.
Then you turn to a different strategy, selling yourself, or self promotion.
It’s not as volatile as nostalgia, you can always go there too.
I used to network with BNC! (Touches both, quickly.)
Just be curious about the other person and go from there.
Ah yes, conversational deadlock. The best way to release the lock is to say you need to go to the bathroom. Sometimes it just wasn't meant to be.
That is much smarter than my tactic of yelling "pthread_mutex_unlock" out loud and then running away.
You got me there. Were this a social setting, that yell would have triggered my interest sufficiently to chase after you for an extended conversation. Resistance is futexile.
Being conscious of this (that people like to talk about themselves) also sometimes give me anxiety when the person with whom I'm conversing asks a lot about me. While I'm happy to answer, after a few responses I start to get worried I'm talking to much. I'm never sure if they want a non-response like "good" or if they want a "real" response that involves detail.
Collect more data and decide in realtime.
Start giving them the detail mixed with humour if you can - and read their body language.
For some things you can actively ask "okay so I'm really into this topic and I'll happily talk your ear off all night - do you want the quick summary or the in depth version?" :)
This also gets tiring after you learn that people don't stop talking about themselves and there is no turn for anything else. It's simply a game described as: "I'm playing the social interaction game where I do best, for the others, when they talk about themselves and I'm listening"
As someone blessed/cursed with the gift of gab, I always enjoy when people interrupt me (particularly when they direct the conversation, curious about my thoughts on everything; I am not an engineer, but love their factual approach to assertiveness).
This seems super weird, like a description on how to eat that goes into great detail about food color and smell and how much to put into the mouth exactly then describing the act of chewing as a deliberate movement like learning to golf or something.
So I guess I am not very autistic. It is a good article though if the basic act of talking to other people Is mysterious to you.
I was hoping more of some insight about how to mingle at a max level place like: you on day two in the evening of a conference and everybody knows each other already. People are in deep conversations and you got about 30 minutes to find someone to have dinner with or you will eat alone and not socialize.
If this article seems super weird to you it's possible that's because you are naturally adept at socializing. For many neuro-atypical folks, remedial socialization requires tons of cognitive focus. It's why some people find social activities exhausting.
> that's because you are naturally adept at socializing
People can be bad at socializing for a number of reasons. if you're depressed it can feel like just thinking that everyone hates you and never reaching out
At least for me it gets easier when you don't think, but this guy is giving the opposite advice
I'm sure this advice might be useful to some people but it's probably the opposite of useful for many others
> I'm sure this advice might be useful to some people but it's probably the opposite of useful for many others
This is probably true of any advice.
Here I was thinking in the opposite direction. That it kind of skipped step 0. Why should we want to socialize, why should we care to? Wasn't the work day enough interaction with other humans for one day and why should we feel a need to seek more? I'm not very social lol
> Here I was thinking in the opposite direction. That it kind of skipped step 0. Why should we want to socialize, why should we care to? Wasn't the work day enough interaction with other humans for one day and why should we feel a need to seek more? I'm not very social lol
What you do at work (in offices mainly) is also socializing and for those who have a hard time doing it these bullet points could help somewhat. Nobody can force you to socialize but you basically stop existing for other people if you don't play that game at least from time to time. I am introverted by default but do force myself to socialize at work because it does pay off to some extent. I do find it taxing and depleting on my energy so I limit it socializing to smaller settings. In large settings I simply cannot function for more than 30 minutes unless I poison myself with alcohol. I've had more isolated stretches in my past and socializing had become very hard so the silver lining is that the more you do it the easier it becomes, you may even enjoy it in limited amounts. Also breaking the comfort zone is not pleasant but does open you up for other things.
I think eye contact is key. Usually people avoid eye contact with people they don’t want to associate with. I’m not very sociable myself, and in your case I probably would be eating alone on default. But I have found when people match eye contact and have any semblance of similarity in interest it’s not too bad getting along.
I managed to queue for the provided foosball table and from there it was easy to get the snowball rolling. First 10 minutes before I had that idea were rough though. I was just wandering the hall, seeing if I knew anyone from any context
Man there's nothing like finding a restaurant off the strip, ordering a bottle of wine and a big meal, and just eating and drinking and reading a book for 2 hours while your co-workers are crammed around a 16 person table in a noisy restaurant bar yelling across dinner about KPIs.
I found the book “Never Eat Alone” to be what you are looking for. It has a whole section on how to be a conference commando.
Personally this was very useful for me. I struggle with social anxiety precisely because I'm always worried I'm doing these sorts of very basic actions wrong, and tend to hang up when I need to figure out the next question to ask in a conversation. Yeah, my therapist says I don't need to worry about it, but it's tough for me to go into any situation without being overprepared, so this is helpful for me
The author recommends asking people what their favorite of a category is, which is funny, because that category of question (provide superlative from set) stun locks me instantly in conversation, because I feel like I have to provide a defensibly true answer for this subjective question, and I don't index things in sets like that in the first place.
I get caught up in this sometimes, trying to pick my Very Most Favorite X, but for most people (who aren’t engineers), they really just want to know “what’s an example of X that you really like?”; it doesn’t have to be so absolute.
In the end, as the author points out, it’s really just fodder for further conversation.
> it’s really just fodder for further conversation
Exactly this.
Just go, "Well, one of my favorite movies is _Avatar_, because..."
A much more useful trick I learnt from Tyler Cowen's podcast is to ask what they think is the most underrated / overrated thing in the category. Everyone understands that the answer is going to be subjective, so there's no pressure to be diplomatic. And in my experience, the answers are also high variance, which leads to more interesting conversations (most people agree that Messi is the greatest of all time, but everyone has a different opinion on who is the most underrated / overrated).
I struggle with this type of question too. "I don't index things in sets like that" is a good way to put it. I hadn't thought about it that way before.
Nice tidbits here. I'd summarize good conversation as balancing:
(1) Creating conversations that are fun and interesting for you. (2) Give attention to the person. Make them feel comfortable, seen, and understood.
More details:
- The better you get at creating you're own good time (and it is a skill), the more you 'energy' you have to give.
- If you feel akward, you'll make the other person uncomfortable. Being comfortable with yourself is the foundation to having a sense of presence and charisma. Even if an interaction is going poorly and its feels like your fault, it can be funny. So many sitcoms are based around comedically bad interactions.
- Focusing on giving attention and comfort to the other person helps take away the anxiety of "what are they thinking about me?". Your focused on doing something for them instead of what they think of you.
- Seeking validation is a form of trying to get something from somebody. When you seek validation, you bring an agenda to the conversation, even if unconsciously, and thats why it feels uncomfortable.
- Most people just talk to be heard, so its a real gift to give someone your genuine interest and attention.
Other tricks:
Take a guess instead of asking a question:
- "You look like your having a good day" instead of "how are you?".
- "Do you work in {field}?" instead of "what do you do?"
- "Are you from {place}"
- You're guess should be educated, something you notice about the person (remember how attention is a gift?). If you're right, you make an immediate connection. If you're wrong, the conversation has a natural place to go.
Pay attention to your body:
- Notice the sensations in your feet, hands, shoulders, etc. Don't change them, just notice them. Especially your breathe. It helps you be connected with the person in the moment instead of in your head.
Another classic icebreaker for parties when you don’t know anyone is to ask, “how do you know the host?” This can reveal shared interests (“we both collect butterflies”), prompt stories (“we actually met in traffic court, it’s a funny story…”) and gives them something to ask you back (“and how about you?”). You might even learn something new about your host, too!
I never understood classic parties. It always seems to me that people end up having fun in spite of the context usually with looseness driven by alcohol.
By contrast if you just go do something you enjoy then you already have a commonality and even if you find the company boring, you're there to do something you like.
So - chess or sports, watching something (sport, plays, whatever), charity work, interest clubs (you can find local clubs for just about every interest online), events like local music / poetry/performance stuff, art shows, and all so on endlessly.
The ones that are inherently group based like chess or clubs guarantee interaction without the awkwardness of socializing with less 'context.'
As a non-drinker I can confirm that it is a real chore to endure most alcohol-centric contexts; having to try function without a social lubricant.
There's a reason why practically all cultures developed alcohol.
It's a commonly occurring molecule that gets you drunk, bound to be "discovered" then easily recreated by all groups of humans. "developed" reads like it was independently invented.
I’m the last person anyone should take advice on socializing from, but this passage seems off even to me.
Another example: "I'm okay but I'm feeling like I need to get myself in front of people more often like this. I'm [sic] been kind of a hermit lately." And again, end with a question. "Are you a pretty social person?"
It's fine if it's already fine.
As part of a normal conversation, it's a good line. Self-deprecating, flattering the other person by comparison, and opening the door for them to share their experience.
In the worst case, it's a desperate bid for the other person to forgive your obvious social deficiencies, oh god I should have stayed home, I'm such a loser, etc
All of its creepy tbh not just that excerpt
Guy needs to stop socialising before someone works out how weak he is and takes advantage somehow
Maybe the last question is a bit pointed, but acknowledging your anxiety and being vulnerable can be help make others feel comfortable opening up to you.
I feel like I've seen a million versions of this article, and it's fine as far as it goes, but where's the sequel for when you've overcome social anxiety and found that you still experience no particular interest in or reward from socializing? This seems to be the sort of situation that attracts a fair number of labels and platitudes, but never anything actionable.
Same as any other important life skill. Once you've learned it, if you don't like it and you don't need to do it, you can avoid it, but should probably still do it periodically so you don't have to relearn.
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That's what I needed, literally the algorithm for approaching human beings. I should have this written in Lua and loaded to my brain along with "How to behave on funerals", and "How to be happy".
In my opinion happiness is not a goal but a state subject to change. I stopped looking for happiness and started to train contentness. Being satisfied with something less than optimal will make you feel much better over time. Sometimes things will go sideways independently of your control. You can be all stoic about that and pretend it doesn't faze you; in my experience it's better to find and focus on the little things that make life more bearable, like preparing a hot meal after a shitty day instead of crashing on the sofa and conteplate the injustice of life.
> How to be happy
funerals do have their protocols grouped by culture, but i think that there's unfortunately no recipe or protocol for how to be happy. to me it seems like that's one of the holy grails for humanity.
maybe you have to reframe this problem. not "how to be happy" and rather, "what exactly is happiness and should the goal be for it to be a constant state?".
All social anxiety tips are useless. These are just bandaid solutions to a deeper problem with an individual.
Figure out the root of the anxiety - lack of confidence, depression, or just plain background anxiety, alienation, isolation etc and work on YOURSELF. Build your confidence through education, learning, the gym, deep curiosity about nature the universe, books. Be comfortable in yourself. That’s the harder problem. Solve that, you solve the world.
These how to guides are self felatio
There's only so and so much you can practice in front of a mirror. Tell yourself a thousand times "I won't panic in a social setting" and you've made zero progress.
Expose yourself to a social setting twice, panic the first time immediately, panic the second time only an hour into the occasion, and you have made progress.
Being affected by social anxiety myself, I wouldn't say there's a "cure". But one can learn to get used to the panic, can learn to "grade" it from unjustified and harmless to "it's better to leave now". Keep doing it, try different settings. It's not really worse than learning to walk. The first steps are wobbly, you cry when you fall, but you get better at it over time.
Social anxiety is a self-reinforcing loop. My therapist says the main thing I need to do to become socially confident is to just get out there and get experience. But my anxiety is itself based on worrying about screwing up because I don't have that experience. Things like this give me a little more knowledge that gives me a little more confidence that I can use to go out and get more experience
You can do all of the above and if the problem is something you can’t change e.g. you’re ugly, none of it will help you. You need charisma and that comes from practice which these guides help you get started on.
This was wholesome. I thought it might feel transactional, but it doesn't. Thanks for posting it.
When did seemingly everyone become "autistic"?
In your “thanks for reading” partial the YouTube link goes to obsidian. Also you should consider a “contact me” on your site. Cheers.
Does anyone have success in archiving this article into the Wayback Machine?
This is actually pretty good advice, me and the author think in a similar way.
Most of the advice seems to be designed to amplify social anxiety, not ameliorate it.
I mean, most of the "questions" he suggests you ask to keep a conversation going would probably result in trying to stop yourself from stabbing yourself in the hand with a fork to distract yourself from how blisteringly spectacularly boring the answers are going to be, while trying to feign some kind of polite interest in their dismal hobby.
"So you collect stamps? What is your favourite stamp?"
That cracks me up. How is the answer to that not going to be like being chloroformed by boring-ness?
Yes, because how dare someone have a non-conventional hobby. Furthermore, how dare they be encouraged to discuss what makes them happy with other people.
As someone who would cheerfully discuss the command pattern, the difference between a hypen, an en- and a em-dash, or conventions in writing audio description scripts, I don't begrudge anyone their non-convential hobby. I'm not quite sure how you even reached that conclusion.
Funny enough, people don't ask me about those things, and I understand because while I'm sure I would be entertained to discuss these, it would be psychosis-inducingly dull for almost anyone else.
Nobody wants to listen to me talk about esoteric subjects; and I sure don't want another repeat of, for example, the time someone labouriously and very, very slowly "explained" the plot of some tedious Game of Thrones thing in some unstructured meandering format that was crushingly and grindingly dull. Absolutely excruciating.
So the idea of someone asking about that is hilarious in a very, very sick way.