• wkat4242 21 hours ago

    Huh so new antimalware tactic: Buy passively cooled PC :)

    And also set up a Russian keyboard: https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/05/try-this-one-weird-trick...

    • patrakov 19 hours ago

      Writing this from a passively cooled (Streacom FC8 Evo) Linux PC with a Russian keyboard.

          # dmidecode 3.6
          Getting SMBIOS data from sysfs.
          SMBIOS 2.8 present.
      
          Handle 0x002C, DMI type 27, 15 bytes
          Cooling Device
              Temperature Probe Handle: 0x0029
              Type: <OUT OF SPEC>
              Status: <OUT OF SPEC>
              Cooling Unit Group: 1
              OEM-specific Information: 0x00000000
              Nominal Speed: Unknown Or Non-rotating
              Description: Cooling Dev 1
      
          Handle 0x002F, DMI type 27, 15 bytes
          Cooling Device
              Temperature Probe Handle: 0x0029
              Type: <OUT OF SPEC>
              Status: <OUT OF SPEC>
              Cooling Unit Group: 1
              OEM-specific Information: 0x00000000
              Nominal Speed: Unknown Or Non-rotating
              Description: Not Specified
      
          Handle 0x0037, DMI type 27, 15 bytes
          Cooling Device
              Temperature Probe Handle: 0x0036
              Type: Power Supply Fan
              Status: OK
              Cooling Unit Group: 1
              OEM-specific Information: 0x00000000
              Nominal Speed: Unknown Or Non-rotating
              Description: Cooling Dev 1
      
      So a cooling device is still present.

      Sensor data:

          iwlwifi_1-virtual-0
          Adapter: Virtual device
          temp1:        +59.0°C  
      
          acpitz-acpi-0    # Fake, always reports these temperatures
          Adapter: ACPI interface
          temp1:        +27.8°C  
          temp2:        +29.8°C  
      
          coretemp-isa-0000
          Adapter: ISA adapter
          Package id 0:  +51.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
          Core 0:        +51.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
          Core 1:        +47.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
          Core 2:        +49.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
          Core 3:        +49.0°C  (high = +86.0°C, crit = +92.0°C)
      • irusensei 18 hours ago

        > Streacom FC8 Evo

        I normally think PC cases are gaudy and boring even when trying to evoke some style. That stuff in Streacom website however makes me want to build something with it.

    • dale_glass 19 hours ago

      Passively cooled PC probably won't work because the board will still have fan headers even if nothing is connected to them.

      • dom96 19 hours ago

        So we just need to implement the opposite of what OP has on our PCs, i.e. make OS think there are no fans.

        • wkat4242 18 hours ago

          Yes and another method of controlling them.

          • syntaxfree 18 hours ago

            External cooling device?

            • theodric 17 hours ago

              The computer knows there's a fan because it sees tacho output. If it doesn't see tacho, shrug. You can get an external temperature-controlled PWM controller for a few units of your local currency on AliExpress, steal 12V from somewhere (Molex header or whatever) and run the fans off that. Figure out where to put the temp sensor to get the desired effect.

              There are far better ways to do this, but they require software engineering, not €3 and 15 minutes.

              • KokomoIsALie 10 hours ago

                The computer knows there is a fan because it knows when there isn't a fan. By subtracting where there is a fan from where there isn't a fan, or where there isn't from where there is (whichever is greater) it obtains a difference, or deviation...

                • lukan 5 hours ago

                  "because it knows when there isn't a fan"

                  How does the computer knows that? You mean the parts that can meassure temperature will meassure where it gets warmer, or where it doesn't get warmer, altough it should?

                  How does the system knows, it is not a local heat pipe, transferring heat away?

                • bryant 10 hours ago

                  Ugh, and unfortunately, this meme makes perfect sense in this context.

                  • TeMPOraL 5 hours ago

                    This meme makes perfect sense in almost all contexts - at least continuous ranges are involved. I salute GP for fitting it for use with a discrete case.

                • mananaysiempre 12 hours ago

                  The problem is not the fan, it’s the fan controller on the motherboard. I doubt a nonfancy fan controller will bother to drop off the bus/whatever if it doesn’t have fans connected, and the comment by 'patrakov upthread seems to confirm this.

      • Grimblewald 13 hours ago

        I feel like we could make our operating system more secure and make things easier for researchers by simply making a normal OS look like a virtual machine. Any program that needs to access resources in a non-virtualized way would have to ask for permission first. If granted, it could then see the relevant information or access the necessary APIs.

        This way, malware authors would have to choose between making things easier for researchers or targeting far fewer people.

        Either way, everyone except the malware creators wins.

        • bear8642 13 hours ago

          > simply making a normal OS look like a virtual machine

          Or perhaps the other way around?

          That is making VMs totally unaware they've been virtualised, as I believe IBM's lpars work…

          • crazygringo 10 hours ago

            That doesn't seem like it would be possible, if you want all the convenient hooks in VM's for them to be able to integrate with and be usable from the host system.

            The solution really does seem like implementing those same hooks in non-VM environments, but preventing their actual usage behind permissions. In a VM, the permissions could genuinely be granted or denied. In a non-VM they would always be denied. But malware could never be able to tell why it was denied permission.

          • orthoxerox 13 hours ago

            Anti-cheat software vendors would lose as well. I prefer the software I run to know its place, but there are enough people who enjoy multiplayer games that hate cheaters more than they hate what amounts to spyware.

            • mattigames 9 hours ago

              I wonder if gaming cyber cafes that have no input ports that only play against another PCs of the same cyber franchise would be a sustainable business venture "no cheaters, no need to install spyware in your own device, warm coffee brought to your table just by clicking a desktop shortcut"

              • larfus 6 hours ago

                Definitely not enough people caring about anti-cheat spyware.

                • mattigames 3 hours ago

                  The other important incentive would be games that cannot be cheated, I saw a few games on steam that have reviews informing potential buyers that the games have been ruined because the devs didn't implement a successful anti-cheat system.

            • xelxebar 4 hours ago

              Genode / SculptOS[0] go this direction. Before starting any process, you craft a view of the hardware resources it will see. Applications come with resource request definitions which you can satisfy by attaching real, virtual, or null resource.

              It's a pretty neat system; runs Doom, so we know it's production ready; and the source is meticulously organized.

              The docs try to be overly general, IMHO, clouding the core ideas. If you're interested, I recommend just spinning up a VM and mucking about, along with the user guide.

              [0]:https://genode.org/download/sculpt

              • achierius 4 hours ago

                "Simply"

                This is a huge, huge, huge amount of work. Even the most obvious things -- like "can you run a VM?" -- can require huge support, in that case even from the hardware, when you want to do them within a VM.

                • viktorstrate 4 hours ago

                  Isn’t this exactly the idea with Flatpak on Linux and Sandbox on Mac?

                  • raxxorraxor 3 hours ago

                    Oh please no. That would make using PC and writing apps a chore. There is a reason why nobody really works with mobile OS or Chrome OS.

                    • comboy 11 hours ago

                      Welcome to mobile development.

                    • AshamedCaptain 21 hours ago

                      I am yet to see _any_ consumer-oriented motherboard where SMBIOS descriptions have even a passing relationship to the actual hardware. I would not be surprised if this malware would also fail in 50% of real hardware out there. But I also guess malware can afford this failure rate; as long as it guarantees it also fails on 100% of VMs/debuggers, it is worth it.

                      But if these assumptions are true then I'd presume malware authors would do timing checks rather than the trivially "emulable" SMBIOS.

                      • baby_souffle 21 hours ago

                        > I am yet to see _any_ consumer-oriented motherboard where SMBIOS descriptions have even a passing relationship to the actual hardware.

                        This seems to be especially true for cheap chineese boxes. If I had a dollar for every time I saw "to be filled in by OEM" strings in "live/production" BIOS images ... i'd be retired :).

                        • kotaKat 20 hours ago

                          Bonus points for a non-unique UEFI UUID that is already enrolled in some random company's Microsoft Intune / Windows Autopilot instance so when you fire it up off a fresh Windows install it begs you to sign into $RANDOM_COMPANY_WITH_BAD_IT_CONTROLS.

                          Triple-points if the vendor includes a sticker telling you to complete Windows OOBE without connecting it to the Internet to avoid this.

                          • snickerdoodle12 19 hours ago

                            I still can't believe that microsoft allows companies to essentially brick machines they don't even own like that. Seems criminal to me.

                            • dylan604 17 hours ago

                              More criminal than hard coding UUID for some other device?

                              • snickerdoodle12 17 hours ago

                                You can do whatever you want with your device. Microsoft is also doing whatever they want with your device.

                                • sweetjuly 16 hours ago

                                  If the OEM hadn't messed up and reused UUIDs, it would be "Microsoft letting companies do whatever they want with their device", which is not unreasonable. OEMs reusing UUIDs for some ridiculous reason is breaking down the chain of "whose device is it".

                                  • AnthonyMouse 13 hours ago

                                    Forget about the OEM. If you find out someone else's UUID you can spin up a VM with your UUID set to theirs and then add it to your system and brick their machine?

                                    • shakna 14 hours ago

                                      Mistakes happen. It is inevitable at scale. So maybe we need softer recovery processes?

                            • smileybarry 20 hours ago

                              I’m fairly sure my expensive ASUS ROG motherboard (ergo: not even their budget line) also had a “to be filled in by OEM” string that I couldn’t even override. (ASUS have a utility but it’s not publicly available, probably just for computer shops)

                              • mananaysiempre 12 hours ago

                                Need I remind you of the ASUS Zenbook UX21 from 2011, almost the first machine to be branded an “Ultrabook”, that experienced sudden shutdowns under Linux (but not Windows) because its ACPI firmware scribbled over random places of I/O space in an attempt to initialize a SATA controller the SSD-based machine did not physically have? (Can’t find the link now, sorry.)

                                • iforgotpassword 19 hours ago

                                  But that's exactly the point. Computer shops that sell complete systems are supposed to put their name in the "system manufacturer" field. If you bought the mainboard yourself and built your own system, then who do you think should have replaced that string?

                                  • smileybarry 14 hours ago

                                    I get that, but I'd expect it to be a setting I can change in BIOS, or at least default to the motherboard's model number. Instead, if I build my own, I just can't change it ever because ASUS refuse to release it publicly. Hell, even the shop I used for the previous PC didn't have such a tool. (And if you change it in Windows, it's rewritten from SMBIOS every boot)

                                    • theshackleford 11 hours ago

                                      I worked in PC stores for a long time and never had any such access to such a tool. Sounds like something only the big OEM's would get honestly.

                                      • smileybarry 10 hours ago

                                        It's mentioned in some ASUS docs, but it's not available on their support anywhere. Probably reserved for big OEMs, yeah.

                                        • iforgotpassword 8 hours ago

                                          I stumbled upon that feature in the (MS-DOS based) bios flashing utility for some mainboard, via some command line option. Just don't remember which one it was, it was ages ago.

                                    • mrheosuper 9 hours ago

                                      How about set it to default "Asus", and computer shop has tool to override it

                                      • iforgotpassword 8 hours ago

                                        Then you can't tell it apart from systems that were actually built by Asus. But given that most smaller shops don't seem to have access to the tool anyways, we'd then just have the opposite situation.

                                    • dragonwriter 18 hours ago

                                      If you buy a motherboard to build your own (or any, even if it is for someone else) PC, you are the OEM.

                                      • gruez 20 hours ago

                                        That's basically my experience for 2 other "gaming" motherboard brands that aren't ASUS as well. My guess is that people who build their own PCs probably don't care about SMBIOS serial numbers being properly populated, so why bother?

                                        • smileybarry 14 hours ago

                                          I would care if I could change it, but you need a proprietary tool that you can't obtain. (Every other way I found involved patching the UEFI and turning off Secure Boot)

                                      • iforgotpassword 19 hours ago

                                        But this is correct, if the Mainboard was bought as is and was not part of a complete system, the system manufacturer is obviously not filled out as there is none.

                                        • encom 19 hours ago

                                              # Manufacturer: Micro-Star International Co., Ltd.
                                              # Product Name: PRO Z790-A WIFI (MS-7E07)
                                          
                                              $ sudo cat /sys/firmware/dmi/tables/DMI | strings | grep -i filled | wc -l
                                              10
                                          
                                          Sigh...
                                        • hinkley 18 hours ago

                                          Malware has bugs. In fact some viruses have done far more damage than the author intended due to bugs.

                                          There was a substantially effective virus years ago that made it around the world in 90 minutes, and it turns out a bug in its networking code caused it to spread half as fast as it should have. Meaning it should have been everywhere in 45 minutes. You can still do a lot of damage without hitting every machine in existence.

                                          • msgodel 20 hours ago

                                            How does Linux find the fans these days? Is it an ACPI/EFI thing now? Nearly all my machines seem to have correct fans/sensors.

                                          • frollogaston 19 hours ago

                                            Is it the actual malware checking this or some researcher-created malware samples?

                                          • lpapez 21 hours ago

                                            Using such tricks might seem like a cute way for malware to make analysis difficult, but often times calling these obscure system APIs can be detected statically, and you bet that it will flagged as suspicious by AV software. If the malware binary is not obfuscated to hide such calls, I'd even call them "counterproductive" for the malware authors!

                                            The legit programs interested in these APIs are almost always binaries signed by well known (and trusted) CAs - making it sensible for the analysis to report sus behavior.

                                            I worked as a junior in this field, and one of my tasks was to implement regex pattern matching to detect usages of similar APIs. Surprisingly effective at catching low hanging fruit distributed en masse.

                                            • jeroenhd 20 hours ago

                                              Malware is signed surprisingly often these days, you can't rely on malware companies not to sign their binaries anymore. Hacked code signing certificates seem to be all over the place and Microsoft seems very reluctant to revoke trust out of fear of actually breaking their original customers' software.

                                              Same goes for the common vulnerable drivers that malware likes to load so they can get into the kernel. A weird tiny binary making WMI calls may stand out, but a five year old overclocking utility full of vulnerabilities doing the same queries wouldn't.

                                              From the research I've read, this doesn't seem to be about avoiding detection as much as it's about not detonating the real payload on a malware analyst's machine. If the AV flags the binary or the detection trips, the second stage isn't downloaded and the malware that does stuff that makes the news doesn't execute (yet).

                                              • gruez 20 hours ago

                                                >Hacked code signing certificates seem to be all over the place and Microsoft seems very reluctant to revoke trust out of fear of actually breaking their original customers' software.

                                                AFAIK most (all?) code signing CAs are cracking down on this (or maybe Microsoft is pushing them) by mandating that signing keys be on physical or cloud hosted HSMs. For instance if you try to buy a digicert code signing certificate, all the delivery options are either cloud or physical HSMs.

                                                https://www.digicert.com/signing/code-signing-certificates

                                                • Deathmax 15 hours ago

                                                  It's a change to the CA rules that was passed in https://cabforum.org/2022/04/06/ballot-csc-13-update-to-subs... to align OV certificate requirements with the EV ones (that enforces the use of HSMs/hardware tokens/etc) that was meant to go into effect for new certificates issued after November 2022, but was delayed and eventually implemented on June 1 2023.

                                              • amelius 21 hours ago

                                                So, from a security perspective, maybe we should run all software inside a VM then?

                                                • jeroenhd 20 hours ago

                                                  You'd lose things like hardware acceleration.

                                                  That said, plenty of malware will stop downloading additional modules or even erase itself when it detects things that could indicate it's being analysed, like VirtualBox drivers, VMWare hardware IDs, and in the case of some Russian malware relying on the "as long as we don't hack Russians the government won't care" tactic, a Russian keyboard layout.

                                                  It won't stop less sophisticated malware, but running stuff inside of a VM can definitely have viruses kill themselves out of fear of being analysed.

                                                  • OneDeuxTriSeiGo 19 hours ago

                                                    > You'd lose things like hardware acceleration.

                                                    This is increasingly less true. SR-IOV and S-IOV are becoming increasingly common even in consumer hardware and OS manufacturers are increasingly leaning on virtualisation as a means to protect users or provide conveniences.

                                                    WSL has helped with virtualisation support quite a bit as a means of getting hardware manufacturers to finally play nice with consumer virtualisation.

                                                    And Microsoft is even now provides full ephemeral Windows VM "sandboxes". The feature that came with them that surprised me was that they support enabling proper GPU virtualisation as well.

                                                    • AshamedCaptain 16 hours ago

                                                      But then you have your "VMs" accessing the real hardware, so the benefits of the VM reduce if not disappear. You literally can't have the cake and eat it too.

                                                      • OneDeuxTriSeiGo 14 hours ago

                                                        Not entirely? The virtualised PCIE frameworks (SIOV, SRIOV, etc) don't actually give direct access to the hardware but rather create a virtualised device inside the PCIE device akin to how modern PCs virtualise CPUs and memory.

                                                        • AshamedCaptain 14 hours ago

                                                          Well, that's precisely the point of these frameworks. They give direct access to the hardware in order to gain the speed advantages of ... directly accessing the hardware. The PCIe aspect of this is just (very high level description) a way to let the hardware know what VM is making the request.

                                                          You're now at the mercy of the hardware manufacturer on whether there's isolation between the different "partitions" or ... nothing at all. Your attack surface expands in a way that's difficult to imagine.

                                                  • 0points 4 hours ago

                                                    > You'd lose things like hardware acceleration.

                                                    I've been gaming through a VM for the last few years now, and hw acceleration is not an issue.

                                                    You would passthrough a GPU and then enjoy near native performance.

                                                    I use iGPU for my Linux desktop and a dGPU passed through to my gaming vm.

                                                    I also passthrough the whole bluetooth device to the VM as I don't use bluetooth on my host anyway. That way I can use gamepads and headset in the vm, too.

                                                    > That said [...]

                                                    Now you're just riffing.

                                                    • smegger001 19 hours ago

                                                      Soundlike having a virtual.Russian keyboard and installing VMware tools or virtualbox addons to host and not using them is the new low overhead antivirus.

                                                    • eddythompson80 21 hours ago

                                                      That leaves you vulnerable to side channel attacks. From a security perspective, we shouldn’t run software at all, but if you have to, just use AWS Lambda.

                                                      • tclancy 17 hours ago

                                                        My response is in the queue, please be patient.

                                                        • amelius 20 hours ago

                                                          What kind of side-channel attacks? You mean caching-related?

                                                        • boricj 21 hours ago

                                                          We wouldn't need to if we used capability-based operating systems.

                                                          • immibis 19 hours ago

                                                            Every app would have a long permissions dialog. Every app would want to read your CPU fan for no good reason (just as another piece of fingerprint) so you'd get use to clicking accept so you could use any apps at all. The malware would still get through. This already happened on mobile.

                                                            • JadeNB 12 hours ago

                                                              > This already happened on mobile.

                                                              It happened on mobile because Android (dunno iOS's permission model well enough) is more on the developers' side than the user's side, or at least they're more concerned with everything just working (for some values of "just work") than with giving users a chance to make sure that things don't work that the users don't want to work. A fine-grained capacity system where users were given the option to lie to the software about what capacities it has wouldn't be perfect either, but it would remove a lot of the user-focused pain points of Android's permission model.

                                                          • jbverschoor 21 hours ago

                                                            That’s how the Xbox works too

                                                            • keyringlight 20 hours ago

                                                              IIRC the xbox one onwards (switching from PowerPC to AMD x86) gave them synergy with AMD's efforts to push hard into servers with virtualization, as well as MS pushing Azure

                                                            • neoromantique 21 hours ago

                                                              Qubes OS exists

                                                            • xyst 18 hours ago

                                                              The trick is to become a company like "CrowdStrike", get your crappy software that runs at kernel level signed, then you can run all of the "suspicious" calls to sys apis all you want. Forget determining if it’s a VM or not.

                                                              Just push untested code/releases on production machines across all of your customers. Then watch the world burn, flights get delayed, critical infrastructure gets hammered, _real_ people get impacted.

                                                              _Legitimate_ companies have done more damage to American companies than black hat hackers or state actors can ever dream of.

                                                              The folks behind xz util within libzma aspire to cause the amount of damage companies like ClownStrike and SolarWinds have caused.

                                                              • dom96 19 hours ago

                                                                Anti virus software just guessing what is and isn’t malware by analysing static calls is actually really annoying. If you’re doing that then why not just make an allow list of trusted software and mark any software not in that list as being malware. It’ll work just about the same.

                                                                • mystified5016 18 hours ago

                                                                  That's pretty much exactly how it works now. We instead analyze programs and guess that they're safe.

                                                                  Well, after we send a copy of the program to Microsoft, of course

                                                              • ChuckMcM 14 hours ago

                                                                I friend of mine in the infosec business spends most of their time (it seems to me) to make their malware honeypots super representative of their respective hardware. Whether its a windows XP based thermostat, a Siemen's PLC controller, or a banker's desktop PC, its kind of amazing the things they do.

                                                              • b0a04gl 19 hours ago

                                                                Mitre ATT&CK's T1497.001 (VM Detection) lists SMBIOS checks as a known vector means its open for injection anyways.

                                                                i did one little expirement on faking VM's powersupply. done it with 'HotReplaceable=Yes' and 'Status=OK', and you suddenly look like a $5k baremetal server.

                                                                cmd used

                                                                pip install dmigen dmigen -o smbios.bin \

                                                                --type0 vendor="American Megatrends",version="F.1" \

                                                                --type1 manufacturer="Dell Inc.",product="PowerEdge T630" \

                                                                --type39 name="PSU1",location="Bay 1",status=3,hotreplaceable=1

                                                                • dragonwriter 19 hours ago

                                                                  FYI: You need two line breaks to force an actual break on HN, or you need to indent each line by two to force code mode.

                                                                • userbinator 15 hours ago

                                                                  This reminds me of how having the right SMBIOS was necessary to create a working Hackintosh. There are so many of these relatively obscure APIs which have been added to the PC over the years, which are often overlooked by those writing virtualisation software, and malware and other VM detection software often tries to poke at them to see how real they look.

                                                                  A next step to making the VM look real is having simulated temperature sensors that actually change in response to CPU load.

                                                                  • taftster 10 hours ago

                                                                    > simulated temperature sensors that actually change in response to CPU load.

                                                                    Or maybe just increments to absurd numbers or negative values. Or locks up when probed. Either way could be fun.

                                                                  • photon_garden 11 hours ago

                                                                    > But that’s smol pp way of thinking. We can do better.

                                                                    Can we remove casual body shaming from our language please?

                                                                    • keutoi 6 hours ago

                                                                      This is a blog post, not a journal. I don't think he should be policing his language in his own work.

                                                                      • bigstrat2003 5 hours ago

                                                                        I would sooner remove posts calling people out for harmless jokes as if they were a moral offense.

                                                                        • dankwizard 10 hours ago

                                                                          Now that would be a big brain play

                                                                          • Smithalicious 11 hours ago

                                                                            Our language? Whose language is that, person in the link aggregator comment section of someone else's blog post?

                                                                            • 63 8 hours ago

                                                                              I found that jarring as well. I'm all for mixing in a jovial, even immature tone to keep technical blog posts interesting but at the very least I'd prefer to keep it non-vulgar.

                                                                              • KetoManx64 10 hours ago

                                                                                No.

                                                                                • nancyminusone 11 hours ago

                                                                                  I wouldn't bet on it. A guy in my city has a "SML PP" custom license plate. I'm not sure on the reasoning either.

                                                                                  • photon_garden 11 hours ago

                                                                                    I wouldn’t bet on it either unfortunately. But a girl can dream.

                                                                                  • whall6 11 hours ago

                                                                                    [flagged]

                                                                                    • photon_garden 11 hours ago

                                                                                      Woman, actually.

                                                                                      • jojobas 10 hours ago

                                                                                        -Babe, a tiny penis isn't such a big deal

                                                                                        -I don't know Jenny, I kinda wish you didn't have one at all

                                                                                        • KetoManx64 10 hours ago

                                                                                          [flagged]

                                                                                        • naikrovek 11 hours ago

                                                                                          [flagged]

                                                                                          • cyanydeez 11 hours ago

                                                                                            This is the internet. If you haven't learned from the last 10 years, you should have noticed caring _less_ about random people on the internet is healthier than trying to change any and everything, regardless of how smol.

                                                                                            You're going to burn out very quickly if this is the level of attention and engagement you desire in the world of the internet.

                                                                                            • naikrovek 10 hours ago

                                                                                              I know what it is. It is a virtual civilization populated by people, the worst species ever known to exist. And it is in this virtual civilization where people reveal their true colors, because there is no punishment for doing so. So here, you see the real identity of humanity. The real people who are underneath the facades of the people you interact with in real life.

                                                                                              And it's clear that the people, as they really are, are all despicable and horrible inside.

                                                                                              thanks for the pep talk, coach, but you're not my coach and i didn't ask for any coaching. i know what i'm dealing with. i've probably been on the internet longer than you've been alive, so i've watched the internet go from a fairly healthy place to just pile after pile of shit everywhere people interact with each other online. i've watched more and more people show up solely so they can be themselves, and more and more places appear solely for people to be unreastrainable asses to each other.

                                                                                              • whall6 9 hours ago

                                                                                                That’s interesting because I feel the exact opposite. I know plenty of people that would say something like “smol pp” in real life, but then come to HN and comment like neutered 50 year old wannabe philosophers.

                                                                                                There is no humor allowed on this platform; real life is much more colorful and fun.

                                                                                                • naikrovek 22 minutes ago

                                                                                                  > real life is much more colorful and fun

                                                                                                  if you think making fun of people is colorful and fun you are again making my point for me better than i ever could. please continue.

                                                                                            • whall6 11 hours ago

                                                                                              Hasn’t failed yet!

                                                                                              • naikrovek 10 hours ago

                                                                                                you are proving my point better than i ever could, so please continue.

                                                                                        • djmips 9 hours ago

                                                                                          When I was a teen and made a malware for the Apple II : I could inoculate disks by putting the hex value $50 in an unused place of the VTOC that was stored on disk. $50 is P which stands for Parasite. This was before the word virus had taken hold and I called my program a parasite. I could prevent the parasite from infecting my and my friends DOS disks with this benign change.

                                                                                          • ajd555 20 hours ago

                                                                                            I wonder if making a user endpoint actually look like a VM could help? Maybe adding some VM like flags to throw off some malware? I feel that bad actors would catch on, but it might offer some protection for some low hanging vulnerabilities?

                                                                                            • emilfihlman 37 minutes ago

                                                                                              I wonder if this could be used to throttle vms, like I'd like to set something like "this vm can only use at most x% of a cpu" measured over y time.

                                                                                              • rustybolt 5 hours ago

                                                                                                > Your first impulse might be to use DLL hooking and patch the cimwin32. But that’s smol pp way of thinking. We can do better.

                                                                                                What's wrong with DLL hooking though?

                                                                                                • staplung 20 hours ago

                                                                                                  That’s nothing. I make my VMs think they have dust.

                                                                                                  • snickerdoodle12 19 hours ago

                                                                                                    What's up with the body shaming in this article?

                                                                                                    > But that’s smol pp way of thinking

                                                                                                    • ksenzee 13 hours ago

                                                                                                      Every once in a while I manage to forget I’m a woman in a space that’s not friendly to women, and then I come across something like this.

                                                                                                      • Smithalicious 11 hours ago

                                                                                                        I don't think "smol pp" is meant to be unfriendly to women, but it's telling that men are expected to self-police such utterly innocuous jokes when women are present even though you couldn't find a phrase less applicable to women if you tried.

                                                                                                        • ksenzee 10 hours ago

                                                                                                          Oh I'm sure it's not meant to be unfriendly to women. It's meant to be unfriendly to men, who are the only people reading the article, in the author's mind. You do see the problem, yes?

                                                                                                          • undefined 7 hours ago
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                                                                                                            • thaumasiotes 8 hours ago

                                                                                                              ...no? I'm pretty sure men don't have a problem putting down other men in front of women.

                                                                                                              • ngruhn 2 hours ago

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                                                                                                        • redundantly 19 hours ago

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                                                                                                          • Footprint0521 14 hours ago

                                                                                                            Ain’t no way, that was my favorite part

                                                                                                            • benatkin 12 hours ago

                                                                                                              Has me picturing the author ambling down the road in a truck with a penguin bumper sticker alongside another adornment attached to the trailer hitch...

                                                                                                        • marcosscriven 17 hours ago

                                                                                                          Fascinating article. It prompted two questions for me:

                                                                                                          1) With the level of expertise, would it be as easy, or easier, to modify the check in the malware itself?

                                                                                                          2) How much work would it be for a something like KVM to fake absolutely everything about a PC so it was impossible to tell it was a VM?

                                                                                                          • 0points 4 hours ago

                                                                                                            Lovely writeup! 10/10

                                                                                                            • benreesman 11 hours ago

                                                                                                              This has applications for other kinds of malware. I used to work in ads, to put it mildly, and all this stuff about blocking the trackers at the DNS level or something? Very silly stuff.

                                                                                                              If you want to fuck up surveillance capitalism, you send plausible but wrong information to the trackers. There are a zillion ways to do this: let one through now and again and replay it, do a P2P browser extension that proxies you and someone near you through each other, subtly corrupt it, bounce it off a mullvad node. The possibilities are endless.

                                                                                                              If you got a fair number of people doing it, you could even have some collective bargaining, like let some of the extreme value conversion stuff through in return for concessions on the more egregious tracking-for-the-sake-of-tracking.

                                                                                                              Sure they'll checksum and shit, but that's a cat-and-mouse game they lose: the typical tracker cookie fire isn't worth shit, it's Superman 2 fractions of a basis point, so even modest effort playing smart against it drives the effective CPM negative.

                                                                                                              • peter422 20 hours ago

                                                                                                                Pretty funny that a blog post talking about complex and innovative ways to help investigate malware has a block of the lowest quality, scummiest ads that probably lead to malware.

                                                                                                                • dheera 14 hours ago

                                                                                                                  > Some malware samples are known to do various checks to determine if they are running in a virtual machine.

                                                                                                                  Not just malware, but some apps are known to do this too, e.g. WeChat.

                                                                                                                  There needs to be a better virtual machine that tries to emulate everything, including random walks for GPS, IMU noise, barometric noise, temperature fluctuations etc.

                                                                                                                  • 1vuio0pswjnm7 17 hours ago

                                                                                                                    I haven't bought a computer cooled by a fan in over 13 years.

                                                                                                                    • jmkni 19 hours ago

                                                                                                                      Hang on, does this mean the MacBook Air is less vulnerable to some malware?

                                                                                                                      • jeffrallen 14 hours ago

                                                                                                                        There's lots of interesting things in dmidecode, including the asset tag of the machine. If anyone is interested, on both Lenovo and Super micro servers you can set the asset tag. Lenovos do it with Redfish, with Supermicros, you have to use their "sum" tool.

                                                                                                                        Using it, you can also modify the model name and serial number of your Super micro motherboard. Which cam be useful when your idiot system integrator can't be assed to set them correctly themselves.

                                                                                                                        • acrophiliac 17 hours ago

                                                                                                                          Misread the title as "I made my VM think it WAS a CPU fan" and was a bit disappointed to find the actual article was not about a VM with an identity crisis.

                                                                                                                          • brcmthrowaway 20 hours ago

                                                                                                                            What an arcane piece of tech. Why not use EFI?

                                                                                                                            • thaumasiotes 14 hours ago

                                                                                                                              > Frankly, I did not miss this at first. I just hoped that what I was trying to do was not “overriding” the predefined structure.

                                                                                                                              > Because Xen (or rather hvmloader) does not define it.

                                                                                                                              > So, before defining it myself, I tried to find out if there was any other poor soul who tried to do the same thing before me. And to my disappointment, there was. Right in the xen-devel patch archive.

                                                                                                                              > Why it was my disappointment, you may ask? Because after reading the response to the patch, I felt the frustration of the author.

                                                                                                                              Specifically, the patch is annotated "SMBIOS tables like 7,8,9,26,27,28 are ne[c]essary to prevent sandbox detection by malware using WMI-queries."

                                                                                                                              And the rejection is in two points:

                                                                                                                              (1) Why is that valuable?

                                                                                                                              (2) What if there were other tables that also helped with that goal? Your patch doesn't include them.

                                                                                                                              • TacticalCoder 15 hours ago

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                                                                                                                                • 0791444520 2 hours ago

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                                                                                                                                  • gazatunnelrats 11 hours ago

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                                                                                                                                    • naikrovek 11 hours ago

                                                                                                                                      > Your first impulse might be to use DLL hooking and patch the cimwin32. But that’s smol pp way of thinking.

                                                                                                                                      i hate every last thing about what people in this world have become. i would like to ask for an asteroid the size of the one that killed the dinosaurs to strike the earth at the same velocity and at the same angle as that one. immediately. our species is an enormous failure.

                                                                                                                                      • jojobas 10 hours ago

                                                                                                                                        Of everything going on at the moment, like senseless wars, countries plagued by mass child abuse or forced organ harvesting, you chose to question the humanity's worth because of a smol pp joke?

                                                                                                                                        • naikrovek 10 hours ago

                                                                                                                                          > Of everything going on at the moment, like senseless wars, countries plagued by mass child abuse or forced organ harvesting, you chose to question the humanity's worth because of a smol pp joke?

                                                                                                                                          no, but i did choose to comment because of that.

                                                                                                                                          i have a rule: you can neither critique nor praise someone about something that they can't change themselves in 30 seconds.

                                                                                                                                          reading other things today (and all days) just means that the comment which breaks the camel's back, so to speak, for that day can take just about any form. today it was this joke. on all days it is someone making fun of someone else for something they can't change or didn't choose to begin with.

                                                                                                                                          humans love picking on other people for things that can't be chosen and weren't chosen. it's like the favorite pastime of the internet citizen. height, race, gender, whatever. if they can't change it in 30 seconds, shut the fuck up about it, and if you can't shut the fuck up about it, it makes you a bad person.

                                                                                                                                          there are a LOT of bad people in the world. myself included I'm sure. humans are garbage, myself included. we make almost no attempt to make the world better, myself included. it is an inherent trait that we could change about ourselves in 30 seconds but almost no one does. therefore we deserve to die as a species. we are useless. we are choosing not to be better, every day. we choose to be assholes to each other, every hour of every day of every year.

                                                                                                                                          we deserve extinction. we have more than earned it. comments like the one i replied to simply push me past the point where i decide to point it out and comment about it.

                                                                                                                                          • alexey-salmin 7 hours ago

                                                                                                                                            All these problems that make you think we deserve extinction, they can't really be fixed in 30 seconds I suppose ? If so, why do you critique everyone so hard that you wish them dead?

                                                                                                                                            • naikrovek 9 minutes ago

                                                                                                                                              I don't wish any individuals dead, i have no ill will towards anyone in particular, but individuals do demonstrate the traits of our species that i despise, so i always bring this up in response to individuals. If you can show me where i can respond to the species as a whole, please do, and i'll direct myself there.

                                                                                                                                              I wish for our entire species to go extinct, not individual people. Why? we are just inherently destructive to each other. we are super flawed in that way, and I don't see us lasting the amount of time it would take for that to evolve out of us. I do see our awful instincts lasting long enough for some future world war three to reduce the population to a small enough amount where being assholes to each other again becomes a survival tactic that works, so this likely won't ever evolve out of us naturally.

                                                                                                                                              Also, in order for it to evolve out of us, we would have to select it out and not allow those who are regularly assholes to each other to breed, and that won't work for a number of reasons. I'm not for society selectively neutering people for any reason, anyway. We are competitive to a point that it is well past anything that the word "flaw" could cover. we are self-destructive, and we let tiny disagreements get us to the point of war.

                                                                                                                                              we are just a garbage species. deep down we all know it, i just happen to mention it for some reason.

                                                                                                                                            • keutoi 6 hours ago

                                                                                                                                              "Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgement. For even the very wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf.

                                                                                                                                              You have made up some arbitrary rules, and adjudicated humanity to extinction.

                                                                                                                                              You certainly can do better.