This is one of those things that should be unnecessary if we all had perfect self-control, but the reality is these apps are engineered explicitly to bypass that.
It feels a bit silly to need guardrails for something as trivial as scrolling.
Shameless personal plug: I wrote about it here. https://nabraj.com/blog/swipe-scroll-repeat-addiction/
Why is it more surprising that scrolling is addictive versus, say, putting a stick of combusting plant matter in your mouth and inhaling the smoke?
I just can't authorize an app to have full control on my phone if it's not open-source.
What guarantee do I have that you are not selling all my user data?
DigiPaws has the headlining feature of the app advertised here, and is open source.
Not that I suspect maliciousness in the case of digipaws or OP, but does the app's code being open-source actually guarantee any security? Is there anything forcing the app I download to be consistent with the repo on Github?
It doesn't guarantee any security, but it is necessary for you to be able to to be able to have confidence in the security in a reasonable time frame. And if you need a guarantee that the source matches the binary, then you can build it yourself.
The readme clearly directs the reader to the F-Droid package, which are built on their buildservers and signed with their APK keys. This does not answer the security question directly, but it's the same model as say Debian repos. There are eyeballs on it by an independent third party packagers who use code scanners and manual review to detect malfeasance, and often have to tweak builds and code to get rid of unwanted things present in some upstreams.
Even better: if the build is reproducable, it guarantees that the source code of the repo is the same as the version that is distributed by FDroid.
Not really. I guess to be 100% sure you need to build the app yourself. I don’t think that publish attestation exists on play store. Probably would need to openly build & upload the app via a CI runner, print all hashes inside that runner and then the playstore also needs to display those hashes before you download - but that doesnt exist for play store downloads yet.
> full control on my phone if it's not open-source.
bro is using social media that listens and records ton's of data in background.
https://www.hipaajournal.com/jury-trial-meta-flo-health-cons...
must be a rather useless device you have there then...
What guarantees do you have that open source code faithfully reflects what is in the compiled binary?
It’s easier for security researchers to check
I understand the position, but I think that's a silly concern here. This is an app that stops you from using social media features that absolutely farm every bit of data out of you they possibly can.
Feels a bit like being afraid to install a smart lock on your front door, so instead you leave it unlocked all the time.
This is a bad take, as much as I don't use social media at this point, people need access to good tools to curb use, and in this case, "good" means "open."
Can you elaborate why? It sounds like we agree to me. People need access to good tools to curb use, and all else equal, open is definitely better than closed. I just am saying that I'd rather have an effective closed tool than no tool at all
It does sound like we agree, but my main issue is the further shifting of the (for lack of a better word) overton window around when closed software is acceptable.
For all its flaws (and despite my general ire towards them), the FSF has done one thing really well over the years, and that's keep the conversation alive around open-source software (which, in turn, has landed us at what I consider to be a really good compromise of a ton of high-quality source-available software).
The FSF isn't pulling as hard as it used to for a variety of reasons, but I think it's important to keep the pressure on and in cases like this, it's really easy to take the stance that at least source-availability shouldn't be compromised on, since the app presumably needs very broad permissions and capabilities from the OS.
Social media apps don't have the same level of permission to detect scrolling even when they aren't being used. This app does have that higher level of control (accessibility service) and so should be subject to more scrutiny.
I am afraid to install smart locks. Too much goes wrong with software. I would install a regular lock instead.
I got locked into my (100+ y/o) house due to a smart lock soon after purchase. It got promptly removed. I'd much rather leave the door unlocked.
A lot of discussion is about the security of these devices (resistance to false open states). But most of the time the safety (false closed states) has even higher stakes associated to it. Having to wait because some api server is slow is annoying but can quickly become life threatening in a different context. Fail-Safe vs Fail-Secure is (imo) often overlooked and probably just as important as the actual implemented security.
Wait, are there smartlocks that depend on the availability of some api service to even open the door? I'd rather call that stupidlocks instead. I mean, just because you're an IoT device it doesn't mean you are smart, ffs.
Instagram tip: if you click the wordlogo “Instagram” at the top (in the mobile app), you can select “Following” and get a feed of only posts from accounts you follow, with no suggested posts and no reels.
I end up going through that feed in a few minutes and it insulates me from the endless scrolling.
As others have said, the permissions required to make this work are scary and require a lot of trust.
The fact YouTube and Instagram don't allow you to disable endless algorithmic short form content is straight up evil.
The way that all these tech companies decided that the users couldn't simply turn those features off is maddening. And the "See this Less Often" option doesn't seem to do anything at all on apps like Facebook.
I have an entirely different problem with youtube, I open all the videos I want to watch from the main page and subscribed page in bew tabs and then sit through them for 3h straight. Shorts are non issue, when I open them the UI and playback pisses me off so quicky that I don't even watch all shorts from my subscribed channels.
This approach is not possible on iOS. Instead, I built a safari extension to block shorts from the feed https://apps.apple.com/nl/app/shorts-stopper/id6745517488?l=...
Rather hard to sell it here to people who are (mostly) capable to install Tampermonkey and add one line rule.
I love the concept, I went as far as patching the android app for instagram back in the day to stop me from scrolling (crashing was good enough). Haven't kept up to date unfortunately.
I would love it.
I'm currently using DFInstagram, which removes home feed. Only downside I see is that is also removes Instagram stories which I do like to check, but I can do that from PC if I want.
As for YouTube I can already remove 99% of the distraction by just putting things to private and completely remove recommendations on home page, but reddit / Twitter / Facebook would be great.
For the social medias I'd love to just have "old mode" where I'm only ever shown stuff posted by people I explicitly follow. Everything went to total garbage when "engagement" became the goodhearts metric, and news feed either throw you astroturf, ads, and rage-bait posts by people I haven't even followed
> I wanted to find a way to use Instagram without ending up scrolling for two hours every time I open the app to see a friend's story.
Why not just Chrome/Firefox/Safari to open the link instead of the Instagram app?
I deleted the YouTube and Instagram apps and I still end up scrolling / watching shorts - it doesn't matter, browser still lets you scroll
I deleted the apps too, but unfortunately I still like to use Instagram to follow photographers I'm interested in. These uBlock Origin filter rules have made it usable without being a black hole for my attention:
www.instagram.com##article:has( > div > div > span:has-text(Suggested for you)):style(opacity: 0% !important;)
www.instagram.com##div:has(> span > div > a[href="/explore/"])
www.instagram.com##div:has(> span > div > a[href="/reels/"])I use Unhook in Firefox on Android to eradicate Shorts from my YouTube experience, it works very well.
Even if you're not logged in? Instagram barely even wants to let me look at the main photo/video of interest without an account.
What helped me, was deleting account as well. The site has different purpose than when I've registered anyway.
In a similar vain, I made https://Instag.com, which let's you remove the "RAM" from Instagram media URL's to download them.
For Instagram I've been using DFinstagram on my Android which removes most features, except chatting and viewing profiles. Also using Firefox with the IGPlus extension which blocks reels. But these make Instagram not feel as smooth or misses some features related to chatting, wish something that has this but still blocks algorithmic suggestions and ads existed.
For YouTube Revanced is very nice, but I also just removed my account, which helped me decrease the amount I spend on YouTube.
This is badly needed, but in my case on iOS. There are alternative frontends to most social networks, that can be used or adapted, however. https://github.com/mendel5/alternative-front-ends .. is one list.. but there are others (for example listing alternative Instagram frontends)
I already deleted the apps, and I mostly use Instagram and youtube in the browser. Any support for blocking reels in browser?
Don't know about reels, but there's "Unhook" for Firefox which will hide Shorts and recommendations on YouTube.
Using Accessibility Service is a very smart approach.
Could you adjust your app (or make a different version) that automatically covers up ads or automatically skips them (e.g. in Instagram stories). Would be great for TikTok too.
Shameless plug: I wrote a user script a while ago that removes everything from the Instagram explore tab when using Instagram in the browser. Confirmed to work on iOS Safari. Requires an app to handle user scripts (e.g. "Userscripts" by Justin Wasack).
https://gist.github.com/jkbe/f362514f99765ac7a9dc343acfe6918...
Installed and im amazed at how many tines ive habitually tried to use youtube shorts already after 2 hours.
Awesome app, been looking for something like this for a while. Thank you!
I use Brave Browser's "Block Elements" feature. Works nicely.
Good idea. I resorted to my own listing of channels on YouTube and never going to the actual site. I'd also get sucked into shorts for hours. I the think the same can be said for any form of scrolling. My goal for is to create a better non addictive social platform.
Is there an alternate web client for iOS that's only videos from channels you've subscribed to?
Control Panel for YouTube lets you hide Home, Shorts, Related videos, plus anything you don't want to see in Subscriptions (including videos you've already watched), plus you can disable autoplay of random videos, block ads and more, in YouTube itself.
You can accomplish this in Firefox with the Unhook extension
I love this and I’d especially love for the Instagram search field to be a textarea not a wall of things designed to distract me.
Being using it for a while and really helps not scroll so much, happy to see this in the top 1 of HN
Great idea. Does it work as a VPN? I always run into the problems with those:
1. You can only run one VPN at a time 2. My banking apps detect when there's a VPN active and won't run
If this works as you say in iOS you would be my new hero! Joined the wait list, would be happy to be part of any test you like to run.
I want this for YouTube.
it works for youtube shorts, and can be enabled for any app where you scroll since it detects if you are scrolling (linkedin, tiktok, reddit, etc)
Then ScrollGuard is for you?
Use libretube or grayjay.
My friend needs this so bad, he has a Reels addiction so bad it makes me uninstall Instagram. I wish there was a feature to block being sent Reels.
You are doing God’s work with this app.
I use Farhan app on Android to do something like this.
... People post stories on Instagram?
I don't find short videos addicting because I feel like I'm not getting enough context and information from short videos. I like long form videos.
More power to you, but I don't understand the psychology of this kind of thing. If I have enough willpower to block a feature why not just use that will power to shut off the app after a while? I understand you're saying it's addictive, but if I were addicted to something then I'm going to be inclined to just remove the blocker.
Anyway, this isn't a critique of your work, just my personal perspective.
I personally don't watch short form content, but I do use services that provide it (among other things).
They push the short form content really, really hard and for me it's not a willpower issue, it's an "I don't ever want to see this feature again because I'll never use it" issue.
Been using YouTube recommendation blockers for a while. Personally I’ve never gone, “oh man I could go for some binge watching!” as much as something piques my interest and I get drawn down video after video of nothing. So removing any sort of advert for a video means it never even crosses my mind to turn off the blocker.
I couldn’t believe how pervasive their recommendations are. We’ve got a little one and he recently developed a plane obsession so I try and watch a few YouTube videos of float planes or biplanes before bed when he’s restless and demanding ‘vrrooom’. You literally can’t use shorts to do it (which they make nearly Impossible to avoid by putting them at the top of the search results and then interspersing them with the normal videos) because after 3 or 4 plane videos they start playing some maga bro science diet video or some AI voiceover video game trash.
I can’t believe how little moral responsibility the employees and management at these companies feel.
you can turn off your watch history and YouTube becomes a lot better
No that definitely makes it worse IMO. The insight into what people really trend on YouTube is one I do not want to see.
Turning off watch history also turns off trending of what other people watch.
I've always figured that this type of thing is best used to stop you from getting addicted, not to stop an already-formed addiction. Or on the flip-side, when you've mostly overcome an addiction but need a helping hand to prevent relapse.
I kicked the addiciton a few years back. However there are still things on facebook worth looking at, and there is no easy way to find those without also getting all the addicting things I don't want. I want to see my friend's life. However some of them don't have a life and instead are constantly sharing the "you won't believe what [other political side] just did" garbage.
this is like putting a wall in front of, or just beyond the edge of, the slippery slope. the need to make an intentional choice or pause before doing the "getting stuck scrolling" behavior is an opportunity for you to catch yourself and see if that's what you really want.
the platform is designed to capitalize on your slip ups in willpower. you can have great impulse control, but can you have it tirelessly, around the clock? this thing is lurking until you slip, as long as you're on it. attention capture is the goal.
I guess my willpower just manifests itself in a different manner. If I lack the impulse control to prevent myself from opening up an app, it seems odd to me to start blocking particular features in the app to manage that impulse.
you mean as opposed to going cold turkey? That makes sense! I personally have wondered about something like this for just FB Groups - I want to read my neighborhood buy nothing page, but I don't want a curated attention-grabbing experience in the full app. So I'd love like, an RSS reader for just group posts that let me direct open a post in the app if I wanted to respond.
Like the chips by the checkout in the grocery store, the "path" you have to take into the app requires you to put on horse blinders if you want to complete what you came in for without getting "engaged". It's very tiring if you're at all susceptible to distraction.