> "It sounded so bizarre that there could be a mushroom out there causing fairytale-like visions reported across cultures and time," Domnauer says.
Now I'm kinda curious whether fairy tales are the result of these visions or the other way around. Probably both.
Almost all of the reports from people I know who have done ayahuasca have reported seeing "elves". It's not only common, they say it's not a "valid" trip unless you do, and even converse with them.
Though I don't know any reports of profound conversations.
Fwiw having drank ayahuasca hundreds of times, I've never seen elves (have seen plenty of other weird stuff though). Only times have been with breakthrough doses of smoked dmt. I guarantee it doesn't make it any less/more valid. There are so many more profound things to see, I don't know why people get so hung up on elves lol (if you ever experience meeting the medicine of a master plant/tree spirt during a traditional dieta you'd be flabbergasted).
The idea that there is one “valid” trip is essentially gatekeeping and should be pushed back on whenever it comes up. It leads to one of the more unhealthy sides of the psychedelic experience - nobody should feel that they have to continually chase something that’s not happening for them.
Like, I know at least two people who’ve done it in group settings with people who saw “elves” and they themselves didn’t see any.
“Valid” as a descriptor is probably best replaced with “average”.
I have done ayahuasca and many people report seeing something like this: http://pbmo.files.wordpress.com/2010/06/machine-elf-2.jpg I can say from my personal experience, that this is only one possible "hallucination" although quite common.
> it's not a "valid" trip unless you do You can definitely have a life-changing experience without encountering machine elves.
Common Side Effects? (show)
Wonder if it will turn out to be related to muscimol that is in amanita mushrooms, as that is always described as more delirious and dream-like
Previous discussion:
But can we grow them in the UK?
Yes, but where can I get some?
Yes, also curious where you might locate a few kilos of said fungi?
There are other species of the same genus that grow in southern Europe and north America, but if any contain the same compounds they don't appear in the literature. More research needed.
This sounds like a variation of Machine Elves -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimethyltryptamine#Entity_enco...
Those are primarily associated with DMT (the one time I tried it, I too had such an encounter and I didn't know it was a thing until years later).
I'm sure I'll be corrected on this but I think DMT and Psilocybin ultimately affect the same pathways so it's just more evidence that Machine Elves are real! (/s on the real part).
>“It's not psilocybin that's giving the L. asiatica mushrooms their lilliputian effect”
Unknown compound ATM.
Yeah, my comment was a bit loose, but I think it's likely that the pathways are ultimately arriving at the same destination.
I've done plenty of psychonaut adventures in the past but it was only that one experience with DMT that actually gave that experience -- but it was also the only time in which I completely disengaged from local reality.
The mushrooms that the article talks about do not contain psilocybin (it's still not clear what psychoactive compound they contain), but you are correct in that DMT and psilocybin, at comparable doses, have extremely similar subjective effects.
Avid conosour of both DMT and Psilocybin and would not characterize the effects as “extremely similar”. Psychedelic yes, but profoundly different at their core in heroic doses—at least from my vantage point.
Just curious, nn-DMT or 5meo-DMT? I haven't tried either but have heard nn-DMT to be more the machine elves type experience and 5meo-DMT to elicit a feeling of not existing in the physical world anymore.
Usually when people just say DMT they mean nn-DMT (which is a lot more visual/weird and can bring on the "elves" at breakthrough dosage). 5-meo-dmt(/bufo) is much more of a felt thing, but can definitely have some visual effects (I usually get enveloped in the bright white light of god before dissolving into everything/nothing, ymmv).
Same vantage point here (with sample size n=1 on the DMT front).
They are both serotonin analogues, but they definitely yield different experiences.
In chemistry it often only takes a single atom difference to totally and radically change a molecule's properties.
