• cf100clunk 9 hours ago
    • romanovcode 12 hours ago

      The flaw is that they had those keys to begin with. What's the point of encryption if key is available and free to use? Same with iCloud Email.

      Privacy cannot come from human-made laws and regulations because they get abused on they change. Privacy comes from mathematics which do not care for laws and regulations.

      • dogma1138 8 hours ago

        The main threat model here is a stolen/lost device or an unscrupulous repair shop not a government agency with a warrant.

        You also do not have to backup keys in the cloud, however for most users it’s the best solution since for them data recovery in case of a hardware failure is more important than resiliency against state level adversaries.

        • toomuchtodo 5 hours ago

          I am an Apple ecosystem lifetime participant. I have recovery and legacy contacts. What I would love is for those contacts to have the encryption key(s) for my data shared with them so they can provide me with recovery options if needed, but Apple cannot.

          Certainly, nation state actors could pursue those people to obtain access to key material, but that is a different hill to climb than simply sending requests to Apple, especially for contacts outside of the jurisdiction or nation state reach. Perhaps Shamir's secret sharing would be a component of such an option (you need X out of Y trusted contacts to recover, 2 out of 3 for easy mode, 3 out of 5 for hard mode).

        • eddyg 8 hours ago
          • dogma1138 8 hours ago

            Apple can recover your keys also unless you enable ADP.

            With MSFT cloud backup of keys is an opt-in. With Apple it’s an opt-out.

            • romanovcode 8 hours ago

              I will include iCloud in this because their email has nothing to do with ADP and is accessible by any agency that would ask.

              • dogma1138 6 hours ago

                Mailbox encryption is near pointless since at the least it needs to be encrypted at both ends not to mention relays.

                For email each individual message should be encrypted if you want any confidentiality and even then the meta data is in the clear.

                And this is because in order to send or receive an email the provider needs to access it. If they put it into a box later on to which they do not hold the key that is just security theater at that point.

          • jqpabc123 13 hours ago

            ... does not possess the forensic tools to break into devices encrypted with Microsoft BitLocker

            Nice intel to have. Now, all that is needed for reasonable security is to avoid storing the key in the cloud. Duhhh.

            Basic rule: Not your hardware (computer/drive), not your data.

            Never store anything on someone else's hardware that you need to maintain full control over.

            But, but, but encryption? It helps but encryption does not guarantee full access when you don't control the hardware.

            • OptionOfT 12 hours ago

              They don't have the tools but for 99% of the people who have laptop with device encryption, they mandate Microsoft Accounts, and guess where the keys are uploaded to? Thats right, https://aka.ms/recoverykey.

              You don't need to build backdoors when you store a copy of the key.

              • jqpabc123 10 hours ago

                they mandate Microsoft Accounts

                I don't use these. See post below.

              • general1465 9 hours ago

                > Nice intel to have. Now, all that is needed for reasonable security is to avoid storing the key in the cloud. Duhhh.

                You can go one step further. Encrypt your computer, store keys on the cloud, then encrypt your computer again but store keys into a file. You can see key ID on Microsoft Live account. Now you won't even look suspicious.

              • fuzzfactor 13 hours ago

                You all did know that the idea of a Microsoft account was a security & privacy compromise from day zero of its conception, right?

                • jmclnx 12 hours ago

                  Well I would say this should be true for most people here. I expect the same for Apple too. The big question is, when will these keys hit the wild ? Since they exist, eventually they will get out there.

                  We all know, if you want real security, there are much better OSs.

                  • dagmx 10 hours ago

                    Why would you expect Apple to have the keys? They famously fought the FBI on the grounds of not having access to the keys themselves.

                    Good engineering practices say that you shouldn’t even find yourself in the position of having the keys.

                    And what “better OS” pushes you to encrypted drives on setup? Most Linux distros don’t.

                  • jqpabc123 13 hours ago

                    Yes; and none of my computers have one. Contrary to popular myth, it is relatively easy to install Win11 Pro without one.

                    • josephcsible 12 hours ago

                      A constant cat-and-mouse game of Microsoft disabling every method to do so as soon as they become somewhat popular is not "relatively easy".

                      • jqpabc123 11 hours ago

                        Really? I haven't had any problems, even with computers that don't meet the official hardware requirements.

                        Download the Win11 Pro ISO, extract it to a USB drive and then execute the command below from it for a totally automated install that bypasses all the BS.

                        .\setup.exe /product server /auto upgrade /EULA accept /migratedrivers all /ShowOOBE none /Compat IgnoreWarning /Telemetry Disable

                        You're welcome!

                        PS: I know it says "server" but when upgrading a desktop machine, desktop is what you will get --- minus a lot of BS.

                        • josephcsible 9 hours ago

                          I believe you that that way works today, but once knowledge of it starts to spread, I expect Microsoft to break it, just like they previously broke Shift+F10 "oobe\bypassnro" and "start ms-cxh:localonly".

                          • jqpabc123 8 hours ago

                            It has worked all along and MS can't break it because I have the ISO that it works with.

                            It's unlikely it can be broken without totally abandoning the server market and disrupting a lot of existing installations --- which would be a marketing disaster.

                  • OutOfHere 11 hours ago

                    The part that I was shocked to read is that Apple is equally unsafe.

                    • dogma1138 8 hours ago

                      You can enable ADP (unless you’re in the UK) and then they can’t recover the key either. But the risk then is that if you lose the device your data is gone for good (unless you have a backup and that opens you up for a whole other list of potential threats).

                      • OutOfHere 5 hours ago

                        Oh I would never use iCloud. The concern is more about Apple's full disk encryption.

                        Regarding my own encrypted backups, the choices there are so diverse that Apple doesn't factor in.

                      • jqpabc123 8 hours ago