It should be noted that even if we assume that the conclusion of this study is correct, i.e. that artificial lighting should have a wide spectrum including near-infrared light, that does not mean that returning to classic incandescent lamps is the right solution for this problem.
The incandescent lamps with tungsten filaments have a much lower temperature than the Sun, thus much more energy is radiated in infrared than needed.
There was about a year or two ago a discussion about a very interesting research paper that reported results from testing an improved kind of incandescent lamp, with energy efficiency and lifetime comparable to the LED lamps.
The high energy efficiency was achieved by enclosing the lamp in a reflecting surface, which prevented energy loss by radiation, except for a window that let light out, which was frequency-selective, so only visible light got out, while infrared stayed inside. The lamp used a carbon filament in an environment that prevented the evaporation of the filament.
With such a lamp, one can make a tradeoff between energy efficiency and the content of healthy near infrared light, by a judicious choice of the frequency cutoff for the window through which light exits the lamp.
Even with enough near-infrared light, the efficiency should be a few times higher than for classic incandescent lamps, though not as good as for LED lamps. Presumably, one could reach an efficiency similar to that of the compact fluorescent lamps (which was about half of that of LED lamps), for such an incandescent lamp that also provides near-infrared light.
There is a 15-30% difference between the groups at baseline (fig 8c-9c, 8d-9d), about the same magnitude as the claimed effect of the experimental condition.
I think the result would be much stronger if these baselines were comparable, so they show they have accounted for other variables like time of day and light history. I am also skeptical of any effect in the retina lasting 6 weeks, with no fading.
Consider that people are often exposed to much more infrared light outdoors, so "worked under a relatively dim incandescent lamp" is not a particularly novel stimulus. Imagine that any of these people spent time outdoors during the six weeks - thousands of times more infrared light there.
Very interesting. I've always thought that there was something a bit "off" about LED torches and car headlamps; the brightness is there, but something about the light just doesn't seem to illuminate as well as an old dim incandescent or even fluorescent tube.
They're saying that the visual performance is indirectly affected by invisible wavelengths somehow. Not that you can see the difference between two types.
I get that they're more efficient in some sense, but man the LED streetlights and other big lamps are so irritating and make things like like such ass compared to mercury vapor or even sodium lights.
Even a colour filter would help with the harshness.
Just to point to anybody that comes here directly, the article has no relation at all with perceived illumination, color fidelity, or anything else people complain about leds.
It's an interesting niche topic that you may want your working place to notice if you work indoors.
Was just discussing last week with a colleague how for the same 'lumen' there was such a dramatic difference between led and incandescent bulbs for ease of reading paper books.
Which one of the two was better for it?
Incandescent, by miles. Not even in the same ballpark. Even just candlelight beats led.
I don't think that this is the reason.
Yes, there is something obviously wrong with most LED lights, but it isn't too much of short wavelength light, but on the contrary. It's the near absence of cyan light in most LEDs. Our eyes are by far the most sensitive to it, the majority of receptors in the eye are sensitive to it, and we may focus primarily on it (focus differs for different wavelengths). This is how you get the feeling of something being wrong with your vision as you for example walk into a mall, and so on.
If anything, higher temperature lights seem to make it better, not worse, but the problem will persist as long as the cyan hole stays there.
Sensitivity peak for humans is in cyan (~510nm) only for low-light conditions (night vision / rod cells). In daylight (cone cells) it's green-yellow (555nm). https://www.giangrandi.ch/optics/eye/eye.shtml
Someone please tell the Australian government now that we've essentially banned other forms of lighting. (except fluorescent)
You can buy full spectrum LED lights (99 CRI, or grow lamps)
The article uses LED as synonym for typical LED lightning.
How is "full spectrum" defined in this case? Visible spectrum is not the subject of the paper, as they care about infrared.
Also even limited to visible spectrum, I have not seen any 99 CRI bulbs. The highest one I have ever found are the 98 CRI by YujiLED, but you pay around $35 for a single bulb. It is absolutely not "easy" to get flicker-free high CRI bulbs, let alone ones that cover the infrared range.
Specialized stores or online. If enough people start buying them, they become popular and cheaper.
Phillips, GE, Cree, and others sell high-CRI bulbs.
10 years ago you had to work to find high CRI bulbs but could still find Cree bulbs pretty easily. Now you can get high CRI bulbs at the grocery store.
High CRI bulbs generally have low or no flicker because high CRI is toward the premium end of the market.
IR emission is not a "feature", it's a bug.
Almost all of the bulbs you can find at a hardware store (let alone grocery store) exhibit terrible 120hz flicker. I know because I've literally tried every single one. Also it's not hard to get "high" (~90-94) CRI while nonetheless having terrible deep reds.
Out of the manufacturers you listed, only Philips Ultra Definition (95 CRI, R9 90) have low flicker and good R9. Unfortunately they are poorly made and I have to keep buying new packs each year but it's more cost effective than Yuji for lesser used areas.
Also the claim from TFA is that NIR component improves visual performance (and I've read elsewhere that NIR also has health benefits).
How about Phillips flicker-free "warm glow" bulbs? I honestly have a hard time believing that they flicker because I can literally unscrew the bulb and watch it dim gradually over the course of a second. Which indicates to me that there's a capacitor in front of the LED drivers smoothing the current out. (Which I guess is required to be compatible with triac dimmers anyway.)
Huh, through experience with (mostly non-premium) LED bulbs, I've learned to interpret "gradually dims over the course of a second" an an early indicator of imminent bulb failure.
Have you tried LEDVance?
Call me when there's lights with a cri r9 of 99
You can't buy heat lamps? They are even more infrared and last longer.
Also LED lighting can have infrared, have a significantly more smoother spectrum curve and still last +20k hours without burnout. The cheaper bulb spectra that they show is a blue led + phosphor coating, but there are infrared LEDs, UV leds, and more. You can make quite the convincing sun simulation, even better than any incandescent bulb, but there is almost no demand for UV + Infrared super full spectrum lighting unfortunately. Only movie & theater lights come close.
>LED lighting can have infrared, have a significantly more smoother spectrum curve and still last +20k hours without burnout
Do you have a link to a bulb that you can purchase meeting all these criteria? The only one I'm aware of was this obscure "StarLike" that was never actually sold in bulk. LEDs can be made good in theory sure, but in practice they are all terrible in light quality compared to a standard incandescent.
You would need to see the spectra of the various LEDs available and create a mix along with phosphor mixes. The closest thing is something like a BLAIR-CG light engine from aputure where they have something like 9 different colors of LEDs that mix together, but they don't put any infrared leds in them because they are for movies and they don't put any UVB or proper UVA leds. But there are infrared, UVA & UVB LEDs that you could apply the same kind of engineering principle to make something that closely follows the sun spectra.
No, you can't buy them as bulbs. The closest thing is those red light therapy panels that include them.
Actually I looked again at YujiLED offerings, and they now have a standard A19 bulb that outputs NIR.
https://store.yujiintl.com/collections/high-cri-led-bulbs/pr...
You're paying through the nose though, but it finally exists now.
Typical electricity rates in Australia are up to 40c/kWh or so.
Do you really think $5 AUD per month per bulb that you’re running 8 hours a day is worth it for better spectrum quality?
Are we also going to ban powerful computers since they use lots of power?
I've been using incandescent more often. All my vanity lights are 40w appliance bulbs now. The difference at night is remarkable. The LED is just too much even at 2700k. I still prefer LED for high power situations like br30/40 can lights.
No mention of CRI which seems kind of odd. LEDs for lighting are increasingly graded by how natural their emission spectrum is. Older lights are quite bad, newer ones sacrifice a tiny bit of performance for more uniform spectrum.
They use rf numbers, which is a newer standard, so that's probably good.
However, the experimental group (extra light sources) got rf 91 bulbs, and the control ("LED lighting") got rf 85 bulbs.
The two scales are not exactly comparable, but they both max out at 100. The only source I could find that discusses both says that > 90 CRI is "excellent" and just below that is "very good". It says > 85 rf is "very good", which tells me it's comparable to a mid-80's CRI bulb.
If I accidentally buy a mid-80 CRI bulb, I either return it to the store, or just throw it away.
So, I'd say this study's experimental setup doesn't support any useful conclusions. They showed that so-painfully-bad-California-won't-subsidize-them LEDs are worse than passable LEDs with supplementation from another light source.
The passable LEDs in the study are probably comparable to the cheap ones at our local hardware store, but worse than the ones that cost $10-20 on amazon ten years ago.
This would have been much more interesting if they'd compared high-end LEDs with and without supplementation, and found a difference. (And by "high-end", I mean "still much cheaper then the electricity they save")
CRI is a pretty bad rating system. They are showing the full spectrum graphs which is what you'd want anyway. Spectral Similarity Index (SSI) is the better number
Sure, but I don't see them mention what they're actually using for LEDs at all. They mention a "colour fidelity index" but I'd expect a manufacturer part number or something so I can pull the datasheet.
Funny enough, the best evidence for this study is that they should probably move somewhere with more sunlight if they can't spell "color" right... /s
They are not using an index much, they are showing you actual spectral graphs. Ask an AI to understand how that is the actual info you'd want.
Is "ask an AI" the new rtfm?
I think CRI is not important here as thats a measure in the visual spectrum. The paper talks about all the missing wavelength outside of the visual spectrum.
Out of curiosity:
a) How do Philips Hue bulbs stack up?
b) Did Philips update them generationally and assuming they are decent now, how recently?
I have incandescent light bulbs at home I have to pretty much smuggle from China. It's amazing how we're replaying the asbestos playbook a century later. Only this time it's government mandated.
where do you purchase yours out of curiosity? My incandescent light bulb dealer on Ebay stopped selling them...
> It's amazing how we're replaying the asbestos playbook a century later
Can you elaborate?
There's a mostly-unsubstantiated-by-data belief that LED lighting can cause health problems by some combination of flickering and narrow color spectrum.
I guess you know better than the scientist studying it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S004896972...
Looks to me that _you_ conclude it's related to LED, I couldn't find that stated in the abstract, it might just be related to a general increase of artificial lightening, regardless of the source.
There's a mostly-unsubstantiated-by-data belief that LED lighting can NOT cause health problems by some combination of flickering and narrow color spectrum.
Do you have evidence that this rock doesn't keep tigers away?
Asbestos was pushed as a magical solution to problems of fire in homes without paying attention to the health effects. It took 80 years for the obvious to become law.
Leds are pushed as a solution to energy consumption by humans without paying any attention to the health effects. Hopefully it will be less than 80 years of cancers and metabolic disruption before the obvious is done.
But this time the regulation was captured pre-emptively, to the point that following best scientific advice for your health is illegal is most of the developed world.
I’m guessing the Russian theory that asbestos is totally fine and isn’t harmful? The Russians still use asbestos and say it’s a plot by the west that we got rid of asbestos in our buildings. (Don’t shoot the messenger here, I have no dog in this fight and am not expressing an opinion)
Asbestos is totally safe as long as it’s not friable and you don’t sand it or disturb the fibers. Mesothelioma was a major problem if you were repeatedly exposed to asbestos. It’s present in nature and especially in soil in small concentrations. What makes it dangerous is if you’re constantly breathing it in. You would be doing that if you ran a buffer over asbestos tile for years, or if you worked in a space with asbestos pipe insulation, or if your job was to install asbestos siding or sheet flooring or formica(many adhesives contained it). Even gypsum wallboard contained asbestos up through the 80’s. It’s precisely its ubiquity as a building material that makes it dangerous because people are constantly disturbing it occupationally.
The problem is that not disturbing the fibers is impossible if you work with it at all, and workers in Russia still suffer from life-changing injuries. Disposing of it safely is also not realistically possible. The regulator just doesn't care, it's as simple as that. Of course they don't "think it's safe" as GP said, there's a ton of research and practice on the opposite and they set a specific (pretty low) limit on the exposure. But they turn a blind eye to the fact it's impossible to enforce and will never be followed in practice as long as asbestos is still being used anywhere. This is why asbestos use is banned everywhere, and this is the issue with Russian regulations, they give a tiny bit of economy a priority over public health, using the convenient research that pretty much "натягивает сову на глобус" in trying to downplay the hazard, if you actually read the relevant studies in Russian.
You are expressing disinformation. The actual regulations are very different from what you make it seem.
Why is it that right now there is still on the frontpage of an "article being found flawed after 6k citations " ( https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2026/01/22/aking/ ) but this random article coming out of nowhere makes the front page on the same day?
People really should get it and stop sharing newly published papers to the general public. The value of one single academic paper is exactly 0. Even a handful of such articles still has 0 value to the general public. This is only of interest to other academics (or labs, countries, etc.) who may have the power to reproduce it in a controlled environment.
Be very skeptical of correlations like this that have dubious or poorly understood causation. Be even more skeptical if they are about day-to-day stuff that would likely have large swaths of people able to reproduce something like it on huge scales yet they haven't. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.
This article is not making an extraordinary claim, and your offence is hyperbolic. Analysis of research should not be restricted to the academe, but careful not to cherry puck research.
It seems like a pretty extraordinary claim to me.
Considering the percentage of live mitochondria that are exposed to external light in a human this seems like an enormous effect. The effect we'd expect from publication bias though is already pretty big. I'm going to go with the latter until we've got some replication, and a plausible mechanism (like.. why wouldn't whales be badly sick if this was a thing?).
You can also look at all the papers it's citing too...